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Re: [sc-users] Quarks breaking sc
Dear all,
first of all, apologies, I did not mean to spread FUD in any way,
my question was just thinking out loud, and likely too compressed.
Here a bit longer:
When people switch to 3.7, they get a very elegant new system for installing quarks
and any other non-quark folders of any kind that is both transparent and consistent:
Quarks.installed tells you all the places it looks, even the default folders like
SCClassLibrary, HelpSource, and Extensions.
This is a major improvement - thanks Chris !
When switching, many users will have an installed combo of Quarks in the Extensions folder,
and they will likely go back and forth between their working pre3.7 setup
and 3.7, until their 3.7 setup is fully working (which may take a while)
One can use this as an opportunity to create two separate, independent working setups:
An old one using just the Extensions folder, as before,
(where the old quarks checkout mechanism is semi-broken or a least confusing)
and a new one using only the new Quarks, where you get full flexibility:
get Quarks in downloaded-quarks dir,
put potential extensions anywhere you like,
add/remove them from Quarks.gui,
save different setups and switch between them etc etc.
For this new setup, it is essential to know that one can disable the Extensions folder,
and use only the new quarks system to control the extensions.
So, back to my question:
"Maybe it would be good for 3.7 to turn off the Extensions folder by default,
and advise people to redo their quarks setups via Quarks.gui and/or includePaths?”
Agreed, turning the Extensions folder off by default is disruptive.
Alternative proposal:
* Inform people that it makes sense to decide to fully migrate to the new quarks system
* Inform them that a very good option for this is to create two independent quarks systems
that don’t step on each others toes:
A - for pre 3.7, the Extensions folder and combinations of links to folders it contains
B - from 3.7 onward, use sclang config via Quarks gui etc
(-> and for this, keep Extensions for the old setup(s) and turn it off for the new setup)
* Explain the recommended new quarks working styles:
quarks in downloaded-quarks,
any other candidate folders somewhere convenient (e.g. not a hidden folder)
pick and choose freely from quarks plus others
save setups and switch between them
I hope this makes sense now?
best a
> On 14/12/2015, at 03:02 , James Harkins <jamshark70@xxxxxx> wrote:
>
> On December 14, 2015 6:02:25 AM Chris Sattinger <crucialfelix@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>> To me, Quarks are of a different category than just files I chuck into my
>> extensions folder without specific quarks description file.
>>
>> Quite the opposite.
>>
>> That was in fact the whole point: you can add any folder,
>> you do not need a quarks description file.
>> It does not need to be on github,
>> it does not need to be in any community directory.
>> It does not need to be in git at all.
>
> Ah, OK, that was the objection to when I said "You need git."
>
> Pardon me if this scenario has already been discussed: If a user installed quarks in 3.6, and then upgrades to 3.7, and then updates one of the already-installed quarks, does the new quarks system handle the conflict between Extensions/quarks and the newly installed language config include path? If not, I would expect duplicate class errors. A quick scan of Quarks *installQuark suggests that it does not.
>
> If a user does the above, she would reasonably expect it to work and she would certainly not guess that it's necessary to trash the old folder of installed quarks. A duplicate class error here would work against the narrative of "quarks are easy."
>
> Alberto's suggestion is for 3.7 to disable all 3.6-installed quarks. I think that's too disruptive.
>
> The 3.7 quarks system could check, on any install/update operation, for the existence of Extensions/quarks and at least warn the user of a possible conflict.
>
> Additionally, Quarks.gui could pop up an "OK/Cancel/Don't ask me again" dialog and offer to disable old style quarks. Then it's a/ by the user's explicit consent and b/ when the user is thinking about quarks anyway (ie don't bother the user about old style quarks at, say, startup). This sort of dialog is common/expected after an upgrade.
>
> hjh
>
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